We aren't going to reward the GOP leadership for trashing us the same way voters reward Murtha for trashing his district anymore.  Enough's enough, and Limbaugh correctly realizes it's time to lay down the law, all other considerations aside.  Steele has backed down.

Mike at Cold Fury offers his thoughts, definitely worth a read.

1 With friends like this...

2 Steele's a pussy. Let's dig up Nixon.

3

I have to say that I'm 'gobsmacked' (to borrow a very odd phrase from the Brits) that Ace is, essentially, defending Michael Steele over at Moron HQ.

What the fuck is going on?! Is he prepping for the implementation of 'localism' or something?!

4

I think Ace is saying that when you are in a political position, you can't out-and-out agree with something that's considered controversial (notice, I said considered controversial), otherwise you'll be lumped in with the whole gang.

However, Steele did not need to call Rush's show "incediary" or "ugly".  That was a mistake.

As for agreeing that "the GOP Conv. looked like a Nazi Rally", it would have been a perfect time for Steele to reiterate that the Republican Party is not a party made up of ethnic groups, or econmic groups, or any kind of groups at all.  We're all people who believe in the same values and principals in government, regardless of what color we are or background we come from.

He just watched that pitch sail right by him.

5 I can't speak for Ace, but I see what he's saying. Look, you've got two options:

(1) Accept Limbaugh as the leader of the Republican party and give up any chance at all of reaching the vast and determinative Middle. Allah was making this point the other day when he pointed out that Limbaugh is reviled by "independents." If we go with this option, we must be prepared to accept minority status for the next ten years or so.

(2) Acknowledge that Limbaugh is a very talented man, but not leading our party. If we go with this option, the party has got more options.

Steele's options sucked from the beginning. He could either agree with Limbaugh, in which case the headlines today would have been (like they were last week): Republican Leadership is Lockstep with Boozy Bloviator. Or he could disagree with Limbaugh, in which case the headlines would read: Republican Leadership Attacks its Own Base.

Guess what happened when Option 2 was chosen? The Base (in the person of Limbaugh) attacked back. And now, as Ace put it, we have a nice little intraparty war.

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure that helps Michelle's children.

So, yeah, I get where Ace is coming from.

6 He's reviled by Independents because they're told to revile him, not because they actually do.  They haven't got a fucking clue who or what Limbaugh is.

7 Yeah, Gabriel I'm sure you "get where Ace is coming from." Too bad you and Ace are completely wrong. I'll assume you've read the comments at Ace's on this subject and have seen NUMEROUS responses that Steele could have made about Rush, instead he looked like an idiot and once again alienated the base. Any number of half wits could have come up with a better response than Steele. You and Ace are wrong on the premise there are only two options. The third; know that the media will screw you and speak the truth anyway. How about that one, Malor? If you honestly support our figure heads the base will always support you. Are you listening, Steele. He's shown he's a lightweight and a useful idiot. He needs to go. McCain II we do not need. By the way, DPUD I like your flaming finger, even better than the flaming skull.

8 Steele's already backing down.  

9

Sorry Gabe, no sale.

As Mare (indelicately) put it, Steele could have handled the situation with someting approaching grace or politician-honed skill (no wonder he got destroyed in his Senate race)--instead he offered up Limbaugh on the sacrificial table, thereby (once more) confirming the MSM's view (and, thus, those "independents" you invoke) that Limbaugh is nothing more than an American flag-draped Nazi bloviator in the mold of Father Coughlin. 

Perhaps, at some poing, people will stop making excuses for incompetents like Steele (which, going by his acquiescnence to the "Nazi" meme spewed on that show in characterizing the RNC convention, he cleary is) and get on board with the rest of us. (e.g. McCain was the uber-independent/incompetent and, sans Palin, he would have been blown-out at an epic level because the vile base that Steele seems to have such contempt for would have stayed home in epic numbers.)

After all, if the (R)s have no base, there is no way they'll ever win anything ever again and having all the "independents" in the world will avail them naught--Ace (and Allah, etc.) would do well to consider this when they're busy making a deal with the devil.

10 Gabe, this is not about agreeing or disagreeing that Rush is the leader.  This is about a full on bitch slap in the face of the conservative wing of the party.  Don't spin it otherwise, it makes you look like a fool.  The entertainer line doesn't bother me.  The incendiary line?  Yeah.  No.

And if Steele really, truly, honestly agreed that the GOP Convention looked like Nazi Germany then he can go to hell.  Fuck.  That.  Shit.  Seriously.   When the titular head of the RNC apparently agrees that we're all racist genocidal loons?  That needs to be called out as hard as humanly possible. 

I am not about to donate to, work for, agitate on behalf of or place my name in line with those who think I'm a Nazi.  I'm just not. 

Yeah, this is a war.  Yeah, the media is going to eat it up.  But this is a war that needs to be fought.  Steele started this.  It's been broughten.  If the RNC wants we icky icky conservatives gone?  Okay then.  Thanks for letting me know. 

I'll give Steele this, I at least have a modicum of respect for people who stab me in the face.  It's more honest. 

11 mare,

If Rush Limbaugh's listeners were enough to win elections all by their lonesome we'd have a Republican president and Congress right now. But they can't. They are just not good enough. There's not enough of them. Their message isn't attracting enough new folks.

We don't need to win the base's support. We've got them already.

And the ones that declare that they won't stand for any compromises, anything other than brash declarations, any politics at all, have already decided that they want to be a permanent minority. Good for them, but they're not doing anything for me. Because I don't want the Republican Party to be a permanent minority. So they can fuck right off.

What we need to do now is woo back the folks that bailed on us. They are out there. We had them just four years ago. The ever-persuadable Middle. The ones who win elections.

Now, who do you think has a better chance of reaching those folks, Rush Limbaugh or Michael Steele? Be honest, Limbaugh has had twenty years to reach them. If he hasn't by now, it's time to give some other strategy a try. And Limbaugh isn't making it any easier since now the chairman of the RNC has to waste his days responding to the entertainer's latest shockquote.

Yes, Steele could have done a better job. He should have been better prepared. He should not have called Rush's speech "ugly." But we have stepped into a whole 'nother pile of shit now. Now we've got the Dittoheads threatening to withhold contributions to the RNC.

Brilliant.

12 We don't need to win the base's support. We've got them already.

Or do you?  This is what always amazes me, the Democrats get their asses handed to them year after year, do they go, "Hmm...we need to moderate ourselves, tone down our message"?  NO!  They nominated the biggest radical Commie they could find, we pick the squish, who was tailor made for the vaunted "moderates", and the Commie stomped the squish.  If you give retard indies and mods someone who governs by a solid philosophical viewpoint, even one that is a proven failure and antithetical to the philosophical foundations of the nation, versus a squish who doesn't know what the fuck he wants, the guy with the solid philosophical viewpoint wipes the floor with the squish.

Don't believe me?  Look at the UK, where the Thatcherites were driven out by the squishes of the Conservative Party, and Labour has owned that nation for almost two decades, and have turned the UK into a fascist hellhole.  We're not going down that path.  Not without one hell of a fight. 

13 DPUD, do you think that if we went all Rush, all Coulter for four years we'd win anything? I sure don't. 

We've already established that there is something fundamentally different about Democratic voters and Republican voters. Just because they saw some success running to the Left, success which was probably based more on circumstances (2006 - Iraq War; 2008 - Economy) doesn't necessarily mean that we will see success running to the Right.

I think you sum up the difference well. I want to win. You want to go down fighting.

14 You really think we had the base in 2008? REALLY? WTF? No we didn't. McCain didn't bring out the base. The estimated 7 million who stayed home because McCain is a douche won't be "wooed" by a spineless Michael Steele. I'll go so far as to say that Steel made such and egregious error (with the Nazi stuff) that he will be all but worthless from now on. He needs to go. The cancer in the party are the RINO's. Steele SOUNDS like a RINO. That's not good and it killed us in 2008. Palin energized, McCain polarized. Being honest, of course Limbaugh has a better chance, he has a bigger audience, is smarter, and knows that the middle is really middle right. Gabriel, if all you centrists, party insiders, beltway boys, and ivy league pundits know so much, and make so much sense, why are they hated by so much of the conservative base? Like me , for example.

15 I'm not giving up principles to win. Why? That's not winning.

16

This is exactly why I have zero interest in working within the GOP.  Let Malor have 'em.  If we're going to slide into socialism anyway, I'd prefer it to be on a fast train to hell.  The Steele way is just prolonging the agony.

17 By the way, If McCain had won, conservatives wouldn't have. I would still have been sad and concerned for the country.

18 I think you sum up the difference well. I want to win. You want to go down fighting.

No, you don't want to win, because you're taking us on the same path the Tory squishes took their party, and as a result, Labour has owned Britain lock, stock and barrel for two decades. 

19 Ah, the RINO purges again. You know what would have happened if we'd have had closed primaries this last time and kept all those centrists from choosing McCain? Mike Certain-Fuckin'-Doomabee would have been our candidate. Another socialist.

You don't get to blame me or Ace for McCain. We hated on him until the day we he won the nomination. And then we did our best to swallow our pride and concentrate on beating Obama.

But go ahead with the blame game, mare, if it makes you feel better.

20 How many of the squishy independents actually listen to Limbaugh?  How many of them just assume he's this radical bigot/racists/blowhard simply because that's what a majority of the media is telling them?

I'm usually able to get a politically moderate person to listen to Limbaugh every so often and they always say "he's not nearly as mean as I thought he was going to be".  The whole "Rush Limbaugh is a radical conservative and turns moderates off" is a completely manufactured image.  The only people Rush pisses off are liberals.  Then they just go off and rant and rave about what a bigot and racist he is, so no one who might be attracted to conservative principles listens to him.

My fiance LOVES listening to Rush because she thinks he's very entertaining and funny.  Now, does she agree with him 100% of the time and has magically converted from liberal-moderate to conservative?  Nope.  However, she does agree with a lot of his PRINCIPLES, although not necessarily in how he proposes to express them through policy.

This, however, is what the healthy debate should be over.  We can all agree that smaller government, less spending, less nanny-state is a GOOD thing.  Once we can establish that, we can win elections.  Then we can debate until the cows come home exactly what the policies are.

I believe this is what Rush was hitting on when he talked about those who were criticizing Bobby Jindal's response to Obama's speech.  Did he kinda suck? Sure.  Were the things he was saying that terrible, not at all, it was mostly the delivery.  However, regardless of whether you think he sucked or not, we all pretty much agree that Jindal can be a great representative of our party and its principles.  But by tearing him apart with criticisms over his "style" and presentation, we're not gaining any voters.  We've instead got to support our "face guys", and save the debating and criticising for after we win the election.

21

We don't need to win the base's support.

Oh really?

What we need to do now is woo back the folks that bailed on us.

And being Democrat Lite is gonna do that. Like it worked so well before.

...who do you think has a better chance of reaching those folks...?

Stupid question. The Great Political Middle doesn't know or care who the hell Michael Steele is, or what he's about. And they're sure not going to find out if he continues to waffle his way along by giving the MSM the sound bites they're looking for. (See above.)

Limbaugh isn't making it any easier...

And what did you expect him to do?  Steele got led around by the nose, and Limbaugh called him on it.

Steele could have done a better job.  He should have been better prepared.

And the fact that he didn't and he wasn't mark him as incompetent for his position.

I am SICK and TIRED of well-meaning mediocrities who trade their integrity for being depicted as “nice,” and are incapable of realizing that most of the mainstream press is the publicity arm of the Democratic party. I am also sick and tired of a Republican establishment that takes it as axiomatic that conservative principles are somehow tainted and therefore must be comporomised away, excused, covered over, or apologized for.

The fact is, the less Republicans say about their principals, the more their principals will get defined for them. By the Democrats. By the MSM. By anyone except Republicans. And once trapped into saying “Oh, we're not that...,” you're well on the way to losing.

22 I want to win. You want to go down fighting.

You know what I want?  The head of the RNC to NOT FUCKING AGREE that the Republicans are Nazis.  That would be nice. 

23 Yes, Gabriel laying blame does make me feel better. It's the first step in restructuring the party. Once we label the "squishies" we can move on to the better leader, the better candidate and the stronger party. Yes, I absolutely want to get to the bottom of the weaknesses of the party. Don't you. Guess what, when you do you're going to have to get your hands dirty, you may even have to point fingers, you may even have to go ahead and actually push people out of the way. It's unbelievable to me that the RNC elected Steele as our spokesman, hahahah. Great spokesman!

24 For the record, I never blamed you and Ace for McCain. (?????) Why, are you feeling guilty about it?

25

You know what I want?  The head of the RNC to NOT FUCKING AGREE that the Republicans are Nazis.  That would be nice.

Well said.

26

The fact is, the less Republicans say about their principals, the more their principals will get defined for them. By the Democrats. By the MSM. By anyone except Republicans. And once trapped into saying “Oh, we're not that...,” you're well on the way to losing.

Amen to that.

It's truly amazing what you learn about what people think of "conservatism" if you let the media define it--some of you might even be pretty stunned to find out that what 'independents' think conservatism is and what it actually is are two diametrically-opposed constructs.

For that reason, it's imperative that 'evil Nazis' like Rush are actually listened to, not throughthe MSM filter (which, as I'm listening on TV right now, don't even mention what Rush said, just that he is "unpatriotic", etc., because he doesn't want to give Obama carte blanche to remake the country), but by everyday Americans who have no idea what Rush actually says because all they are told is that he's the sort of monster that lives under their childrens' beds.

27   Did he say anything about agreeing that Republicans are Nazis?  This bothered me more then what he said about Rush because I knew Rush could take care of himself.

28

(sorry, had a mouse incident and posted early! Cont'd...)

The last thing we need are guys like Steele out there denouncing guys like Rush and, by easy extension (because the media will helpfully build it!), conservatism because they want to be liked by the venomous asps in the MSM and want to 'sell' a watered-down version of it (that tastes an awful lot like Diet Socialism) to the tools that watch Stewart, Letterman and CNN which will, in any event, turn around and bite you to death no matter how the mesage is framed--it just makes it that much simpler when it's a limp, lifeless, philosophy.

29

Fuck Michael Steele and frankly, fuck the GOP in perpetuity (in fact, I wrote that on their little card requesting contributions).

Folks: RINO Republicans, with their big braying ass RINO Special Leader McCain, threw the election to Obamessiah; hell, Bush and his socialist weenies in Congress went on a spending orgy that set the standard for Obama's Great Leap Backward.

It's over. If being an anti-free market, snivelling, magic Negro lovin', anti-gun rights socialist shitbag (hello, UK Tories!) is the best the GOP can offer America, then fuck them.

The market has now erased 50% of the gain made since the bear market low of  1932---in just 16 months. It has tanked out from 9200 to 6800 since this Kenyan (or hell, Indonesian, what's a few time zones between friends) usurped the highest office in the land with his gang of tax-cheats. If this doesn't make your blood boil, friends---then you're at room temperature.

Fuck Michael Steele, it's time for Revolution. If I were Osama bin Biden, I don't know that I would be so eager to bring the Boys back into in a job-killing Great Depression he has engineered.

 

LEGIO XX AirCav Support & Logistics

30

 And Gabriel and Ace---whoever the fuck you people are---get the fuck over to the Dhimmicrats where you asshats belong. We're not YOUR fucking base---we're free men. We don't need a goddamned party. We don't need to make nice. We don't need the company of dimwitted morons who think it makes perfect sense, in a debtor nation with no money, to spend trillions more by taking from the productive and giving to the wilfully indigent.

We don't need your goddamned Union anymore: be well advised of that. And if push comes to shove, we don't need to worry about winning a game that's stacked against us by both parties shipping in an entire country of third world shitbags.

We believe in a government that governs best by governing least.

We believe in a government that protects our borders from invasion.

We believe in a government that sets up the groundwork for prosperity by ensuring equality  of law and low taxes.

We believe that we don't get our goddamned right to self defense from a group of sclerotic old men or a fucking piece of paper, we get it from the very nature of our sovereign beings.

We believe in "government" leaving us the fuck alone.

If you believe that, then that's great---you can stand with us. If you don't believe that, then go join the Obama shitwagon right now and get the fuck out of our way.

 

LEGIO MORTIS

31 Whoa, easy there, put the knife down, OJ.  Ace and Gabe are wrong on this one, but on the whole they're good soldiers.

32 Whoa....chillax, dude.

33 Holy cow! I step away, and we have another interesting night?

I may not agree with Ace and Gabe either, but I will pardon one mistake for the whole body of work.

And I like the response Russ left at Moron Central.

34 And at least Gabe has been willing to go after Allah.

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