1 I can't stand the smell of cigarette smoke, but I totally agree that smoking shouldn't be banned.  I don't even think it should be banned in restaurants/bars.  The way I see it is, if I don't want to smell smoke, then I won't go to a restaurant or bar that allows smoking.  Some restaurant/bar owners will have smoking, some will do the smoking & nonsmoking sections thing, and some will ban smoking.  Nothing wrong with any of those choices.

2 (to clarify, I obviously meant that smoking shouldn't be banned by the government in restaurants/bars.  Owners should be able to make their own choices.)

3

I call for an MSNBC debate between Huck and Winnie.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=478075&in_page_id=1770

Chris Matthews:  Next question: Did Alberto Gonzalez and Larry Craig solicit gay torture sex from Valerie Plame?

Huck:  I lost 100 pounds.

Winnie:  I'm a 100 years old, fuckers.

4

Restaraunts and bars should be ALLOWED to selectively issolate their own clientelle, it happens all the time, so no smoking restaraunts and bars is fine by me, as long as it's the proprietors who make the decision, and the clientelle is informed of the situation.  I think all denny's are smoke free.  You wanna grandslam and smoke after? fuck you go to schecky's corner store restaurant, thats fine by me.

non owners, who don't care about clientelle making the decision is bullshit.

Some people don't like jews.  how about a no jew policy?

5

Yeah!  No smoking Jews OR cigarettes!

6 And that's all I ask Mrs. Peel, to let businesses determine their own policy.  Huck doesn't honor that.  I actually hate the smell of cigarette smoke too (it smells cheap and nasty) quality cigar smoke however, is sublime.

7 Blah, cigar smoke is even worse.  It's cloying.

Anyway, a comparison:  Bars and restaurants also frequently play loud music.  The noise level at your local Pappasito's (and if you don't have a local Pappasito's, git yer heinie down to Texas for some kickass fajitas and chile con queso!) is actually above the maximum levels OSHA sets for factories and such.  (I don't know how the employees are not required to wear hearing protection.  Must be an exemption.  Good work, lobbyists.)  And bars can be even worse; the one and only time I went to a bar, I had to turn my hearing aids off before we even got close to the door, and I have only 15% of normal hearing, and I could still hear that "music" (I hesitate to use that term for such cacophany).  So people who go to those places a lot are suffering severe damage to the hair cells in their inner ears, which means they will eventually suffer hearing loss.  (It's not an increased risk, like secondhand smoke supposedly increases the risk of lung disease.  It's a guarantee.)  Should the government then ban loud music?

Huckabee's problem is that he went on a big health kick a few years ago and lost about fifty pounds, so he's decided that everyone else should lose weight and get healthy too.  Possibly true, but he's lost track of the fact that it's none of the government's damn business what health choices I make.

ok, time for bed.  I have to be offsite almost all day tomorrow, bleh.  At least that means I don't have to dress up.  Not that anyone else in this group dresses up for work anyway.  Typical scientists.  I bet they don't even know how to tuck their shirts in.

8 You don't like cigar smoke?  It smells so nice!

Oh well, hope your day tomorrow is better than its sounds like it'll be.

9 Thanks.  It won't be bad, just long.  My current job involves coordinating several groups from several different institutions, so I have to go offsite tomorrow to do some of that, and then I have class in the evening.  We're planning for some preliminary testing next month, and then we have our big test in October.  That test will be sixteen hours straight starting on a Friday morning at 8 am.  Gack!  But on the bright side, the testing facility is at my alma mater, so I will already be in town Saturday, so I'll get to go to a football game.  Yay!

ok, bedtime for real now.

10

HOW DID YOU MISS THIS??  I might not whore out for your pimping anymore  

11 Heh, I'll have to do a LEGO roundup tomorrow.

12

I smoked cigars for about 3 years, they taste fantastic, I must admit, and the environment of cigar smokers is, as you said, sublime, however, WATCH a cigar smoker.

They are no different from Chaw chewers, and as you listen to them talk, as they talk around a cigar, sounds like they are sucking air through a dirty diaper.

I am working at quiting smoking, not cuz of cigarette smokers, but because cigar smokers are friggen disgusting, in their habits.

example,  Listen to Rush Limbaugh during a phone call.  You hear him weaze, and you hear his spit bubble under his inhalation.

I have a weak stomach, and I fucking GAG! when rush with his def ass ignores how DISGUSTING his habbit is.

"slurp slurp weaze" "yes?" "slurp slurp weaze" and you HEAR the SPIT riddled "point" bubbling under his inhalation.

FUCKING DISGUSTING.

13

Random bit of info.  I sucked the eyeballs out of a freshly killed rabit, I ate, RAW dear, and god knows how many of raw fish while I lived in japan.  the only beef I ate, while living with my girlfriend was tongue, barely cooked.

I can eat a lot of shit without gagging, but listening to rushes cigar sword sucking background disgusts me.

14 That's why I don't smoke them often.  I know some people get hooked and can't do that, but I can, so that's what I do.

15

Very seldom do I find a restaurant that allows smoking.  I recently went to an Applebee's on the MS Gulf Coast and took the first available seat with my co-worker.  The smoke was awful and I decided I didn't want to go back there again when they are so busy that I choose "first available."  A non-smoking restaurant will get my business the next time.  That's how commerce works and how people make decisions for themselves.  Doesn't seem so complicated that I need the government to interfere.

Here is some information about the legislation Huckabee passed in AR regarding the public places smoking ban.  I have to say while I disagree in theory with the government interference in business, they make a salient point about the health care savings.  It is an interesting trade off.

16 I always hear that health care argument, and I understand it, but to me, its an issue of fixing the health care system, not controlling behavior.  Beyond that is the longterm risk, if the government can force you to do things that can prolong your life, the gov't can likewise force you to reduce your life span, things like euthanasia, waiting lines, refusing treatment, that sort of thing.  I saw recently that the Brits are talking about refusing care to certain overweight patients.  That's what scares me.

17

Those are all great points and I agree.  Watching two family members suffer with cancer-related illnesses, I have seen the burden of health care costs, even with medicaid and supplemental plans.  There is a huge problem with the costs associated with health care in our country.  Let me say for the record that I'm opposed to socialized health care.  However, that said, I do think there are very simple measures that can be taken to make improvements that are not harmful and don't restrict freedoms.  I believe Governor Huckabee's point is primarily for the non-smoking majority upon whom others impose their harmful habits when we share the public realm.

I want a say-so in how my tax dollars are spent, including health care plans for government employees, medicaid and medicare programs.  For example, I don't think plans should cover sex change operations but local governments are starting to include coverage in health care plans for such things.  My taxes pay for that privilege.  But on the flip side, if someone suffers from a birth defect that disfigures their appearance, that is seen as cosmetic and often denied coverage.  It's insanity.

18 Which is why I'm so opposed to private health care.  I believe there are plenty of measures we can take that don't involve hostile gov't takeover.  Beyond that, we get situations that are arbitrarily decided as you describe, which is often how gov't decides things.

Beyond that, I think a donor trust system to help the uninsured could be a useful thing to offset the costs a hospital picks up.  Liberals could just give their money to those charities, since they feel so strongly about insurance for all...yes I realise that the reason that hasn't been done already is because liberals are socialists and often too undisciplined to give away their money without coercion.

19 Well, it's pretty much a done deal. Anytime these bans get on ballots, they pass. Every single time. Now, the push will be smoking in cars, and at home. It's an easy sell, because people hate smokers so much, they'll gladly begin to sacrifice personal freedoms, to stick it to those dirty disgusting stinky smokers. This is a big deal that's really kind of getting ignored, because smokers are a minority. These bans are going over so easily, and without a fight, that people are watching to prepare for the next bans, which will be red meat, and ultimately, guns.

20 the reason I'm so passionate about the Nanny State Problem is that liberty works on a synergy, the more you have, it is much stronger it is as an institution, the less you have, you see a dramatic weakening of the institution of liberty. If you burn one person and take their liberty, they feel no obligation to defend yours when the authoritarians put their sights on you, and soon enough, liberty starts being eaten away quickly, as no one has any reason to defend anyone elses.

21 mmm red meat!

22 guess I should have posted my smoking ban story in a more recent thread.

23 Its cool, things are slow enough here right now that people can keep up, I haven't had a good link to send to Ace or Allah in a few days, so traffic is slow...

24 Well, I linked you the other day, so you should be seeing a huge jump in traffic any minute now.

Annnnnnnny minute now...

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26 http://www.montblanc4pens.com