1 Regarding McCain pissing off conservatives - In my opinion most of the people who are pissed off are looking for a reason to be pissed off.  You know, it is possible to do two things at the same time, such as build a fence and address employer sanctions.  In fact since building the fence will take an extended period of time there are those among us who kind of think that waiting for the fence to be built before any other action is taken is rather stupid (to put a point on it). 

Here is another point - Comprehensive means all encompassing, in other words, just because McCain says we need comprehensive reform it doesn't necessarily mean what many conservatives think it means. 

I disagree with a lot of the moronosphere on immigration in that I think the idea of deporting 12,000,000 people is unworkable so I support legalization for those who have lead a mainly law abiding (not counting the immigration violations) life in the US and making things so tough otherwise with increased employer sanctions, English as the official language, surcharges on money transfers to Mexico etc.  that the others self deport. 

Just building the fence which is waht so many conservatives seem fixated on is won't accomplish much by itself.

2

And saying that all the anti-illegal alien folks want is a fence is "rather stupid".  Build the fence, enforce the laws on the books (against aliens and those who employ them), refuse public assistance to any illegals, deny federal funds to sanctuary cities... the list goes on and on.  Most of us want to see that before we'd even consider supporting any kind of amnesty, which is what "Comprehensive" is code for.

When those measures are taken, the illegals move out or self-deport.  Make it nationwide and they'll self-deport so much that the few remaining are manageable.  You don't have to deport 12,000,000 illegals... just the ones you have on hand.  Keep doing it and it will work.  Try to stay in Mexico or even Canada illegally... you can't because they enforce their immigration laws aggressively.

3 Okay, let's just break this down.

Regarding McCain pissing off conservatives - In my opinion most of the people who are pissed off are looking for a reason to be pissed off.

Totally disagree. Indeed there are some Outrage! types, but there are plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike or even refuse to back McCain.

You know, it is possible to do two things at the same time, such as build a fence and address employer sanctions.

Indeed, there is a lot of money set aside to do both those things, and yet, there is little beyond small token efforts taking place.

In fact since building the fence will take an extended period of time there are those among us who kind of think that waiting for the fence to be built before any other action is taken is rather stupid (to put a point on it).

Yep, and again, the money for a lot of it has been set aside, and little is happening.  How much of the fence is built?  Last I heard there was about 5-10 miles put up out of a couple hundred that they were planning.

Here is another point - Comprehensive means all encompassing, in other words, just because McCain says we need comprehensive reform it doesn't necessarily mean what many conservatives think it means.

Except that it has been a DC codeword for mass blanket amnesty with a few token provision for a few years now, and everyone knows it.  You know it and I know it.  If McCain is too stupid to avoid using a word that now has a loaded meaning, he's too stupid to be president.

I disagree with a lot of the moronosphere on immigration in that I think the idea of deporting 12,000,000 people is unworkable

We've launched craft out of the solar system, hundreds of others into deep space and on planets, we're landing one on Mars today, we've put men on the moon and men in space for months at a time, we have a fleet of ships, each the size of a small island, stealth bombers, obscene wealth and a large enough nuclear arsenal to eradicate all life on this planet, the idea that we cannot enforce our own laws internally and secure our own borders is absurd, and that our government is trying to peddle that lie to us an insult to our intelligence. 

Simply enforce employment law, drop the fucking hammer on employers, throw the book at employers who egregiously violate immigration law.  Create a monitoring system for visa violators, impose huge penalties on any illegal using someone else's name, credit, ID's or social security number.  Let's not forget, most of the 9/11 hijackers just let their visas expire, and were allowed to run free.  Bar illegals from collecting money from the government.  Most will go on their own.  In the meantime, if we need labor, we should improve our immigration system so that it is easier and more fair for those who have respected our sovereignty to come here.  If the people who came here illegally want a shot at citizenship, they'll have to go to their home countries and stay there, unless there is some extreme circumstance where asylum should be granted. 

A lot of this will work on the same principle as high levels of gun ownership do.  If a lot of people carry or have firearms in an area, potential troublemakers learn from the actual troublemakers before them that there is a good chance they will be given acute lead poisoning for breaking into someone's house, robbing or trying to harm innocents.  Same principle for illegals and their employers.  Make the risk outweigh the benefits.  The illegals may be willing to take the risk, but I'm guessing the business owners and managers wouldn't. 

I agree that the singular focus on the border is way too narrow, even foolish, but in large part that unbuilt fence has become symbolic of our runaway government's refusal to listen to its own citizens.  That fact alone is terrifying, or it should be, given what principles our nation is founded on. 

I think much of the reaction you see is a partial recognition of this, and many of the people refusing to support McCain see the fact that McCain is a bit less worse than Obama as incidental, that both are symptomatic of a much, much larger problem we face, and they may just be washing their hands of it.

4

Here's a fairly simple plan that I think most reasonable people could agree on (similar to posts I made on an AoS thread):

1)  Start building the border wall.

2)  Concurrently, start revamping the legal immigration  / guest worker process so that coming to the US legally is much easier and available to far more people.

3)  Implement and enforce a foreigner ID system, heavily penalizing businesses who continue to hire illegals (I had my 'gaijin card' when I lived in Japan ... it acted like a drivers license for ID purposes and wasn't a burden at all)

4)  As the border wall is completed and after the ID system is implemented, using no-bullshit no-loophole milestones, allow illegals to register for their ID card under the revamped immigration guidelines.

There are those who will argue that the wall isn't needed if self-deportation is significantly increased through enforcement measures.  I disagree.  It would raise the barrier to illegal entry significantly.  Instead of just crossing a vague border, illegal crossers (including drug runners, possible terrorists, etc) have to literally attack us to get across.  This is a big psychological step and might finally convince the Mexican Government that they have to get their act together and stop exporting their social problems.

Will people still get in and remain illegally?  Of course.  Japan is an island nation, has a homogenious native population, has very strict documentation requirements, and they still have some issues with illegals (mostly Filipino maids).  However, they keep the issue manageable, and about two orders of magnitude smaller than our problem.

Finally, McCain has zero credibility on this issue.  He can say whatever he likes at this point, and I wouldn't believe him.  Politicians increasingly make whatever promises they need to make to get elected, then just completely ignore them and do whatever the hell they want.  I believe action and action only at this point, especially on this issue when it comes to McCain.

5 Gargh!  System ate my comment, and it was a long one, too, and I'm in no mood to try it again.

6 Just a clarification.  I didn't the wall was all that people wanted I said many people were fixated on it.  As to the wall the alst figure I heard was that over 300 miles had been completed but a quick search doesn't reveal the number.  If I recall correctly it was quoted in a pretty major news paper and they were saying 350 miles by the end of 2007, but like I said I cant find my source so if anyone can dig up actual numbers I will accept them. 

This post is a pretty good summary of my position on illegal immigration

http://kurulounge.blogspot.com/2007/10/
rate-of-remittances-to-mexico-drop.html

7 Okay, the 370mi is how much they are supposed to get done, scaled back from 700mi, which was the initial plan, but I can't find how much of the 370 is completed.  

8 neither can I as I dig thru my memory I recall it being Chertoff on the John and Ken show on KFI who said that the 370 miles would be done by december and that at that time about 300 miles was complete.  That would have been last September because I was in San Diego doing compliance testing on a new product.

9 Hiya, nice day.. Your article is extremely impressive. I never considered that it was feasible to accomplish something like that until after I looked over your post. Generic Darvocet Online You certainly gave a great perception on exactly how this whole process works. I will make sure to return for more advice. Thanks...

10

either can I as I dig thru my memory I recall it being Chertoff on the John and Ken show on KFI who said that the 370 miles GHD Hair Straightener GHD Specialswould be done by december and that at that time about 300 miles was complete. That would have been last September