September 27, 2009
AoS lifestyle tip, Colorado edition
If you're going to get all liquored up on Val-U-Rite and then go homicidally joyriding, Grand County is the place to do it. If you get an average sentence, you won't even spend a month in jail.
That Denver case where a guy got 48 years? He was driving drunk and ran a red light after spending the evening at a strip club, had a criminal record for assault and failing to pay for child support and had a previous arrest for domestic violence. He left the scene of the accident without even slowing down after running over a family of four including two children who were wearing their Halloween costumes from a couple of weeks prior, despite admitting that he was aware at the time that he hit someone, and continued to attempt to conceal involvement in the accident after he sobered up. He hit the family so hard that he threw the kids 50 feet. Only the father survived.
The mom was a nurse who, prior to staying home with her kids, had worked in a children's oncology unit and volunteered with an animal shelter. They were both very active in their church and had met through a Christian-organized bicycle ride.
That's how fucking evil you have to be to get a reasonable sentence for DUI in Colorado.
That Denver case where a guy got 48 years? He was driving drunk and ran a red light after spending the evening at a strip club, had a criminal record for assault and failing to pay for child support and had a previous arrest for domestic violence. He left the scene of the accident without even slowing down after running over a family of four including two children who were wearing their Halloween costumes from a couple of weeks prior, despite admitting that he was aware at the time that he hit someone, and continued to attempt to conceal involvement in the accident after he sobered up. He hit the family so hard that he threw the kids 50 feet. Only the father survived.
The mom was a nurse who, prior to staying home with her kids, had worked in a children's oncology unit and volunteered with an animal shelter. They were both very active in their church and had met through a Christian-organized bicycle ride.
That's how fucking evil you have to be to get a reasonable sentence for DUI in Colorado.
Posted by: Alice H at
10:14 AM
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1
I read that article this morning, and had quite a different impression. The authors took great pains to give absolutely no context for the drunk driving problem in the state, which made me immediately suspicious that they were creating a crisis out of nothing. So I started looking up some stats.
You'd never guess from the article that drunk driving deaths had dropped by more than a factor of 2 since 1982 (from 422 down to about 170), despite the population of the state increasing from 3 million to 5 million over the same period. From 2002 to 2006, the deaths per 100 million miles dropped from 0.72 to 0.48. That's huge.
I don't know what agenda the Denver Post is prosecuting here, but the real message should have been that whatever the justice system is doing, it seems to be helping. A lot.
I read that article this morning, and had quite a different impression. The authors took great pains to give absolutely no context for the drunk driving problem in the state, which made me immediately suspicious that they were creating a crisis out of nothing. So I started looking up some stats.
You'd never guess from the article that drunk driving deaths had dropped by more than a factor of 2 since 1982 (from 422 down to about 170), despite the population of the state increasing from 3 million to 5 million over the same period. From 2002 to 2006, the deaths per 100 million miles dropped from 0.72 to 0.48. That's huge.
I don't know what agenda the Denver Post is prosecuting here, but the real message should have been that whatever the justice system is doing, it seems to be helping. A lot.
Posted by: geoff at September 27, 2009 11:03 AM (VMQrg)
2
I don't think the drop in DUIs are necessarily a result of what the justice system is doing, so much as an increased awareness of the dangers of DUI.
I don't think engaging in a behavior that results in death should be penalized any less if the perpetrator is drunk. If anything, allowing DUI homicides to receive such a lighter sentence makes a case for banning alcohol, as it seems that the rationale for that is diminished capacity. We lock up mentally ill people who are a danger to others if they refuse to take their meds (except when we're taking them to the county fair), why wouldn't we lock up someone who repeatedly drinks and drives, preferably before they get to the point of killing someone?
(disclaimer: I think most of the readers here know I have a dog in this fight)
I don't think engaging in a behavior that results in death should be penalized any less if the perpetrator is drunk. If anything, allowing DUI homicides to receive such a lighter sentence makes a case for banning alcohol, as it seems that the rationale for that is diminished capacity. We lock up mentally ill people who are a danger to others if they refuse to take their meds (except when we're taking them to the county fair), why wouldn't we lock up someone who repeatedly drinks and drives, preferably before they get to the point of killing someone?
(disclaimer: I think most of the readers here know I have a dog in this fight)
Posted by: Alice H at September 27, 2009 11:18 AM (qJHYy)
3
I think most of the readers here know I have a dog in this fight
I have a number of rejoinders to your comment on logical grounds, but I don't care enough to pursue them if you have a vested interest in the subject. Suffice to say that the Post's article is a prime example of agenda-based journalism, and is probably indicative of a push for some sort of legislation with a weak factual basis.
I think most of the readers here know I have a dog in this fight
I have a number of rejoinders to your comment on logical grounds, but I don't care enough to pursue them if you have a vested interest in the subject. Suffice to say that the Post's article is a prime example of agenda-based journalism, and is probably indicative of a push for some sort of legislation with a weak factual basis.
Posted by: geoff at September 27, 2009 11:29 AM (VMQrg)
4
If the number of murders is declining, that doesn't mean we start letting murderers off with a slap on the wrist.
And everyone has a dog of some sort or another in every fight. Your comment is similar to saying that because I'm a small business owner, I have no business discussing taxes affecting small businesses, or because I'm a woman I have no business discussing sexual assault. If the topic were unimportant to me, I wouldn't be posting about it.
And everyone has a dog of some sort or another in every fight. Your comment is similar to saying that because I'm a small business owner, I have no business discussing taxes affecting small businesses, or because I'm a woman I have no business discussing sexual assault. If the topic were unimportant to me, I wouldn't be posting about it.
Posted by: Alice H at September 27, 2009 11:35 AM (qJHYy)
5
"Vested interest" isn't really the right term. Maybe "emotional involvement" would have been better.
"Vested interest" isn't really the right term. Maybe "emotional involvement" would have been better.
Posted by: geoff at September 27, 2009 11:36 AM (VMQrg)
6
Your comment is similar to saying that because I'm a small business owner, I have no business discussing taxes affecting small businesses, or because I'm a woman I have no business discussing sexual assault.
No, I'm saying that if you have a "dog in that fight," then the ill will generated in a vigorous discussion will outweigh the benefits. It's not worth it to me.
Your comment is similar to saying that because I'm a small business owner, I have no business discussing taxes affecting small businesses, or because I'm a woman I have no business discussing sexual assault.
No, I'm saying that if you have a "dog in that fight," then the ill will generated in a vigorous discussion will outweigh the benefits. It's not worth it to me.
Posted by: geoff at September 27, 2009 11:38 AM (VMQrg)
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I'm actually interested in hearing how someone justifies light sentences for DUI homicide, so please, go ahead.
Posted by: Alice H at September 27, 2009 11:43 AM (qJHYy)
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I promise not to get all hormonal and emotional on you, even though it is that time of the month.
Posted by: Alice H at September 27, 2009 11:44 AM (qJHYy)
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I'm actually interested in hearing how someone justifies light sentences for DUI homicide, so please, go ahead.
That's not what I said, is it?
Sorry, but I'm done.
I'm actually interested in hearing how someone justifies light sentences for DUI homicide, so please, go ahead.
That's not what I said, is it?
Sorry, but I'm done.
Posted by: geoff at September 27, 2009 11:46 AM (VMQrg)
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Dammit, I just ran off another one of our three readers!
Posted by: Alice H at September 27, 2009 11:47 AM (qJHYy)
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Does that mean I'm the number 1 reader, by default??
Personally, I think sentences should be doubled if it's DUI or drug related. If you cant act responsibly when you drink, double dumbass on you, pay the price for your actions.
Posted by: mrfixit at September 27, 2009 12:24 PM (TSfHi)
12
I don't know what agenda the Denver Post is prosecuting here, but
the real message should have been that whatever the justice system is
doing, it seems to be helping. A lot.
I'm sure the Post has some agenda, papers usually do, it could be as simple as the We Must Do SomethingTM impulse, or there could be something else. I'm wondering if you can really correlate what the CO justice system is doing with the reduction in DUI homicide, or if it could be something else, cultural factors, social pressure, or habitual alcohol abusers drinking themselves out of commission. That doesn't mean that light sentences are acceptable, but I don't think you're advocating light sentencing, either.
I'm sure the Post has some agenda, papers usually do, it could be as simple as the We Must Do SomethingTM impulse, or there could be something else. I'm wondering if you can really correlate what the CO justice system is doing with the reduction in DUI homicide, or if it could be something else, cultural factors, social pressure, or habitual alcohol abusers drinking themselves out of commission. That doesn't mean that light sentences are acceptable, but I don't think you're advocating light sentencing, either.
Posted by: doubleplusundead at September 27, 2009 01:14 PM (J+HTN)
13
Personally, I think sentences should be doubled if it's DUI or drug related. If you cant act responsibly when you drink, double dumbass on you, pay the price for your actions.
Agreed. Few years back, when I was still living in Nevada, the state tried to legalize pot, and I voted for it - not because I wanted to legalize pot, but because the trade-off in the bill was doubling the minimum punishments for DWI, DUI, and vehicular manslaughter caused by DWI or DUI. Sold me on it.
Posted by: Ember at September 27, 2009 01:53 PM (LdRAG)
14
I'm wondering if you can really correlate what the CO justice system is doing with the reduction in DUI homicide
That was a little tongue-in-cheek. The bottom line is that both traffic fatalities and drinking-related traffic fatalities have dropped dramatically. That's a success story, not a reason to rouse people to action with an inflammatory article.
The authors of this story used a combination of cherry-picked (very weak) stats and anecdotes to try to make their case. But they don't have enough data for reliable stats, and for some reason didn't feel like going to past years to get enough data to make it more reliable. The result is a suite of claims that are completely unsupported.
For example, the "average" sentence in Grand County is based on . . . one case. That's statistically meaningless.
So my comments above are solely directed toward the awful distortion and abuse of statistics in the article. I had similar objections to a terrible WaPo article on traffic fatalities a few years ago.
Somehow, taking that position got me accused of supporting light sentences for DUI homicide.
I'm wondering if you can really correlate what the CO justice system is doing with the reduction in DUI homicide
That was a little tongue-in-cheek. The bottom line is that both traffic fatalities and drinking-related traffic fatalities have dropped dramatically. That's a success story, not a reason to rouse people to action with an inflammatory article.
The authors of this story used a combination of cherry-picked (very weak) stats and anecdotes to try to make their case. But they don't have enough data for reliable stats, and for some reason didn't feel like going to past years to get enough data to make it more reliable. The result is a suite of claims that are completely unsupported.
For example, the "average" sentence in Grand County is based on . . . one case. That's statistically meaningless.
So my comments above are solely directed toward the awful distortion and abuse of statistics in the article. I had similar objections to a terrible WaPo article on traffic fatalities a few years ago.
Somehow, taking that position got me accused of supporting light sentences for DUI homicide.
Posted by: geoff at September 27, 2009 05:46 PM (VMQrg)
15
Somehow, taking that position got me accused of supporting light sentences for DUI homicide.
You're right, I made a mistaken assumption there. This is what happens when I blog with PMS and no coffee. I apologize. And I'm not even going to throw in a "BUT STILL!!!!!" even though my raging hormones are telling me to do so.
You're right, I made a mistaken assumption there. This is what happens when I blog with PMS and no coffee. I apologize. And I'm not even going to throw in a "BUT STILL!!!!!" even though my raging hormones are telling me to do so.
Posted by: Alice H at September 27, 2009 08:36 PM (qJHYy)
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