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1

2 Feel free to excuse Paladino and the people who nominated all ya want. I won't be a part of it. 

3

It's a disgrace...The NYS GOP are so screwed up you would think the Dems have put them in there...

The NYS GOP ran away from Steve Levy who is teh Suffolk County Executive (my county) and he was a Dem - he is a fiscal conervative who is really well known for messing - and winning - against the unions in Suffolk County. GOP fought hard to get rid of him and get Rick Lazio instead - who didn;t even campaign and is only know for getting trounced by Hillary a few years ago for the Senate. Palidino invited himself after the Lazio fuckup fro the GOP primaries and lost handily...Palidino always seemed a bit crazy - but it always seemed like he acted crazy to get ink and airtime - now he's just showing everyone that he is moonbat crazy and needs to be locked up, not elected... his poll numbers dropped 10+ points in one week after an outburst and bogus claims vs Cuomo and there is obviously a lot more to drop.

I still can't believe that there are no GOP with half a brain and desire that can get any elected position in NY...I'm not even sure if someone is running against Schumer...Jelly-brand has the American Idol judge's father running against her...

4 You're being way way way nicer than I was planning on being.  Like, I do not know enough profanity to express my position on this.

5

IVD, I realize that you're from the beltway and dishonest hackery is therefore your stock in trade, but really.  I'm sorry you can't see how you're trolling with this crap, and that the problem is that the GOP is so fucked up that a nutbar like Paladino can get nominated.  Cobbfan's summary is a good one, and if you were halfway honest, you could have just posted something along those lines.

The reason I just put up pictures in response to your garbage is that you're not even worth engaging.

6 Really?  You mean the GOP establishment in NY that handpicked Dede Scozzafava did so much better than the tea partiers did?  Because I'm not seeing it.

7 And yeah, Paladino is a fuckup, an epic one, but with the possible exception of Rudy, I've yet to see anything but fuckups from the NYGOP, so to trash a political movement that has only been around for a year and a half and shown significant and results in that time, I don't see where your denunciation is warranted.

8 Are Dan Maes and Christine O'Donnell also in the NYGOP? I mean, I was with the tea party on Joe Miller and whoever the hell is running against Bob Bennett, but to think that you can run not only hard core conservatism in blue states and win is nuts. 

If the tea party had been this organized in summer 2009, we never would have had a Gov. Chris Christie, because he was one of the eeeeeevil RINOs the tea party wails against. 

9 It's a new political movement...it's gonna make mistakes and we're gonna see a lot of unforced errors, the GOP leadership had a choice to either adapt and work alongside tea partiers or resist them...they mostly chose resistance, and the results have been a mixed bag, more outcomes good, some bad, as we can see.And considering what a fucking mess the GOP continues to be, I think the tea party will stick around until it becomes clear the GOP is going to get its shit together or it needs to be replaced.

10 I really don't see what's so ad about that speech? I mean everyone is entitled to their opinion, why is his anti-gay opinion so much worse than a pro-gay opinion? He said he doesn't want to teach our children that being gay is a successful option.. Oh well, I really don't think children need to be taught that gay is okay. We were taught, that everyone is equal, no matter what race they are. NOT what kind of sex they have.

I don't know enough about the guy, to make an opinion but to bash him for being honest in his opinion and stating it, is something that's refreshing. Even if I disagree with it. There was no spin, just an opinion and he was speaking to like minded folks. Oh well,.

We have to put up with grayson, they got to put up with him.

11 Yes, it's easy to lob shitballs at a whole bunch of good people when you smear with a broad fucking brush, IVD.

NY is fucked up to begin with, and now we in the hinterland are to be lumped in with the fuckwads on either coast?

We are fighting for you, like it or not.  Face the truth; the tea party is doing more to preserve and perhaps reclaim our nation from the fucking commies than the goddamned "Republicans" forwarded by either coast.  Are there Republicans on either coast?  Not a whole hell of a lot of them, so instead of pulling your own weight we in flyover country (clinging to our guns, bibles, antipathy, and whatever the fuck else) do the liftng for you.

And in the end, we expect not gratitude, as that would not fit the very definition of "ingrate".

You go right ahead and dislike the tea party... we are saving not just your ass, but that of your children.

12 One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch, girl

13 So we should just shut up and vote for who our betters tell us to vote for and send in our money?
See, that's what started the whole thing.
You want perfection? Keep people from being involved.

In their defense, the NY GOP are a bunch of slimy corruptocrats, the only difference between them and the Dems is that the Albany Times Useless hates the (R) after their names. For many years the Senate was GOP and the Assembly was Dem, watching them sleazily negotiate the budget months late in the papers every year for decades was pretty entertaining. Expensive entertainment, but at least I got something back for all my money they took.

So anybody in NY who has held office is probably a slimy piece of garbage. Especially as you need the backing (read: you have to give them a big enough bribe) of the "leadership" to get anywhere.
As we saw with Dede, she didn't win any primaries but They Who Decide decided.
Sticking someone in there who's worse than Pataki just for the (R) isn't a good deal. Let NY have fun with another 6 years of Democrats ruling with an iron hand. That state is so screwed all they're doing now is mostly making the rubble bounce.

Ace has a post about some Rino guy and says, Don't even give me that RINO jibber-jabber. We've purged enough RINOs. Surge first, then purge later.
Now, I have no idea if the guy he's talking about is a Rino or not, I don't care, that's not the point.

The point is that it's not about "purging" the GOP it's about telling the GOP what I want and finding out if they want to earn my vote and/or my support.

In football my favorite team is the Giants, my second favorite team is Whoever's Playing Dallas (today was a good day in the Veeshir house).

In politics my second favorite party is whoever is running against the statist, I don't have a favorite party.

14

If the tea party had been this organized in summer 2009, we never would have had a Gov. Chris Christie, because he was one of the eeeeeevil RINOs the tea party wails against.

15 Like, I do not know enough profanity to express my position on this.

Email eddie, high might be able to offer some editorial support.

16 (1) Dave, I gotta say that IVD is right about Chris Christie being one of the evil RINOs.  So the pants-on-fire thing is uncalled for.

(2) I don't think NY-Gov was ever really in play, so this is much ado about nothing, unlike DE-Sen, which we might have taken.  I was in Rochester during the Lazio-Hillary business, and the Lazio campaign stunk on ice from where I sat.  I didn't expect much better this time.

(2a) - I will say this for Lazio and the NYGOP: Lazio is actually fairly conservative for a NYGOP statewide pick.

(3) I could be wrong about this, but I don't think it was obvious that Paladino was quite as nuts as he seems to be now, unlike CO'D, who you could spot a mile away as a complete train wreck.

(4) Yeah, the Tea Party is going to make mistakes.  The GOP makes mistakes.  But the O'Donnell situation really turned me (and a lot of other people) off when folks started saying they really accepted the idea that we would lose that race if CO'D won the primary and still went balls to the wall for her.

17

I'm sorry Joe, but I stand by my characterization.  I don't claim to be an expert on that race, but it looks to me like you had two good candidates in a hard-fought primary.  Upon defeat, Lonegan immediately threw his support behind Christie and Christie had Tea Party support (what there was at that time) going into the general election.  It's impossible to say what kind of a job Lonegan might have done, but one can imagine him doing a similar job to Christie.

So, at best, you have a mis-characterization, but given IVD's history, I think it's safe to call it an outright lie.

Also, on a side note, even though Joe is much more 'establishment' than I am, this is the way to debate the issue.  You can make your points without bitter trolling.

18 I was pretty neutral on the DE thing, but I'm of the opinion that if a RINO reaches Chafee level uselessness, I have no problem with that state's base tossing the RINO to fuck with the state GOP apparatus.  It lets them know that complacency is not optional.

19

OK, I want to say one last thing, then I'll leave this topic alone:

This is what happens when you set up a straw man for your own personal pet peeve and conflate two largely unrelated issues.

If IVD had just made the point that Paladino's statement regarding homosexuals was reprehensible, he would have had almost unanimous support (certainly including me).

If IVD had made the point that:  well, this is what can happen when you go into 'throw the bums out' mode, he would again have had large-scale agreement.  Then we could have debated whether that was worth it or not -- a legitimate debate to have.

But, by attempting to broadly tarnish the Tea Party through one man's opinion, he ended up creating a position that was unsupportable and turned a potentially worthwhile post into trash.  Now we're just having the same argument we've had a zilliion times before.

Sad, really.

20 I am going with IVD on this.

21

#20 I am going with IVD on this -

Actually, HD #19 gets my vote, and for the exact same reasons, and to the same conclusion. DP #18 deserves honourable mention for summarizing the cogent bits tho'.

But thread winner is douglas #15 "Email eddie, he might be able to offer some editorial support" ...because a) it's reasonably funny, b) it's screamingly true, and c) I'm sooo sick of this nonsense.

IVD: Bottom line is, if there were no Tea Party movement, inarguably the GOP  wouldn't be fricking close to an effin' win in 2010, period (let alone a wave) ...so if the TP faction blow a few while getting their ground game right, they don't even come close to the GOP's total screwups score. Give it a rest: we're your friend, my friend.

Like it or not.

22 I think you need to take a close look at the history of populist movements and their outcomes in this country before you start lavishing so much praise on the tea parties.  Federal Reserve,  and  direct election of Senators are two of them.  Beyond that though the Tea Parties have morphed from their original economic focus which I for the most part supported to supporting some real loons and that is going to cost us inthe long run.

23 Yes, we're just too dim, bless our little hearts, to be able to make decisions for ourselves, we need our betters to do it.

So just shut up, send in your money and vote for the (R) no matter how much of a shit sandwich.

Because we owe them, they're better and smarter than us.

24 Beyond that though the Tea Parties have morphed from their original economic focus which I for the most part supported to supporting some real loons and that is going to cost us in the long run.

^this.

One of the problems that I think we're running in to is that we end up with one establishment candidate (whoever's not scared by the Tea Party) and one Tea Party candidate (whoever can shout the loudest and has had more free time to show up at middle-of-the-day rallies - which doesn't necessarily speak well as to what they're doing IRL), and neither of them are being properly vetted before the primaries.  The GOP should have made a strong effort to vet every establishment candidate, early on, for both conservative credentials and to make sure that they had sparkly clean noses. The Tea Party should have done the same, but unfortunately it's not set up to do so, and if the GOP had done the sort of deep digging that should be required of every pre-primary candidate, they would have been accused of trying to run off the Tea Partiers. 

And to those of you who are perfectly hunky-dory with labeling homosexuality a dysfunction, fuck you with a chainsaw.  I think Paladino's trying to walk a very fine line with what he's doing, and he's not doing it well.  If he wants to say he doesn't support gay marriage, that's one thing, but saying being gay is an unsuccessful life choice is treading into dangerous territory.  I'm betting that the line that he omitted from his oral speech was something stuck in by a speechwriter and it doesn't fall into what he wants his public perception to be, but he needs to make a damn quick statement of that, and he needs to either chastise or fire the speechwriter if he wants anyone to think that he means it.

25 And Veeshir, you got what you wanted, the GOP establishment is turned on its ear, and you're still bellyaching about your betters choosing for you?  Whoever's doing the work gets to make the choices.  Quit whining like a welfare queen who doesn't get to buy soda with her food stamps.

26 No, I'm bitching about this post, IVD still hasn't figured the nation's mood out or he has and he doesn't like it.
You might have figured that out if you had read the post and my response.

I will say this post is very aptly categorized into GOP Fail.

27 I am going with IVD on this.

28 I read the post, I read your response, I read the article that was linked.  New York's running into the same problem that we're running into here in Colorado - the Tea Party didn't do jack to vet the candidates they promoted, and if the GOP had done it, it would have been viewed as a power move.  You're turning it into another chance to bitch about what the GOP has done, when they would have been condemned either way.

29 I get the nation's mood. Throw the bums out, all that.  Perfectly fine. I love the idea of new blood and strong primary challenges so that incumbents are either (1) thrown out for a better option or (2) scared into believing that they're not invincible. 

HOWEVER.....

I would prefer that candidates be vetted.  Would it be so much to find candidates who don't think homosexuality is a social disease or identity disorder? Or someone who's had a job in the past 10 years that didn't revolve around suing people? I really don't think that makes me an establishment RINO, but if it does, I'll gladly be one. 

30 ...and if the GOP had done it, it would have been viewed as a power move.

And if the GOP leadership hadn't done such a damned good and thorough job of destroying their own credibility on things like this, we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

31 Another misunderstanding that I've tried to address over and over.
The Tea Party is neither, there's no tea and no party.
There are only tea partiers.


So getting mad at the Tea Party is to get mad at the people the establishment has pissed off and created.

The voters warned the GOP for 3 elections and they didn't listen.
They told us to shut up and boosted good and loyal Arlen over Toomey because Toomey was unelectable and people who thought differently were being unhelpful.

The reason there are tea partiers is because our political, social, moral and intellectual betters refused to listen to us because they were too busy calling us names and telling us to shut the fuck up.

And now that Teh Peepul are mad and doing something about it, they're calling us names and telling us to shut the fuck up.

The GOP "leadership" can see the writing on the wall and the mood of the people, they whine about it often enough, why didn't the NY GOP nominate a decent candidate, one that was going to make their voters happy?
That's not a rhetorical question but if the answer is something snotty, rude and insulting, save it.

Ditto Delaware.
Ditto Pennsylvania.
Ditto, well, you get the idea.
Or probably not.

32 For clarity, the last question should read,
Why didn't the GOP leadership nominate a candidate that would be acceptable to the voters instead of ending up with Paladino?

33 You can say "There is no Tea Party" all you want, it doesn't make it true.  Ask anyone who labels themselves a Tea Party Patriot.

And I'm not sure how a primary means that a candidate was forced on New York, could you explain?  It seems that anyone that was able to get enough signatures on a petition was able to appear on the primary ballot, which is how Paladino ended up in the primary.  Was there some sooper-sekrit circumvention of the primary that the rest of us aren't aware of?

34 Well, the GOP establishment pushed their candidate. why didn't they push one that would have been acceptable to tea partiers?

And you're claiming there is a Tea Party doesn't make it so. It looks as if you're pretty out of touch.
There is no platform, that would seem to be a requirement for an actual Party. If you ask people where the line of how much gov't we need is, you'll get approximately as many answers as people you ask.
They're just a bunch of pissed off people who are sick of being crapped on and called names by our elected officials.

Go to a Tea Party event, it's a pretty interesting crowd.

35 Are you saying that people who are members of the GOP shouldn't be allowed to campaign for their chosen candidates?  REALLY?!  They chose who they thought would best lead, they got voted down in the primary.  And, like most other primaries, there were multiple establishment candidates, and it got winnowed down by who was able to garner the most support.  You are, once again, failing to see that whoever does the most work is likely to determine the candidates.  You don't like it, get out there and do some fucking work, but don't expect people who actually do the work to choose who you want and not who they want.

Maybe the Tea Party isn't organized where you live, but here it's pretty damned organized.  And you're assuming I haven't been to a Tea Party event, which is flat-out wrong - I have photos dating back to the first Tea Party rally at the Capitol in Denver.  A LOT of the GOP regulars here are also Tea Party members, and a lot of the Tea Party members have ended up taking substantial positions in the GOP, starting at precinct committeeperson and working their way up in an amazingly short period of time.  Whoever is willing to do the work runs the show.

36 Nope, I'm saying quit getting all whiny when the voters won't support the elitists' choices when those choices are exactly what the voters have been saying they don't want, you know, like Mike Castle.

The Tea Party near you is organized?
Does it have anything to do with the Tea Parties in other states?

So you're saying there are Tea Parties not a Tea Party.
Well, that's another kettle of fish, now isn't it?

37 Of course, because none of them have anything to do with the national organization that's been sending buses around, or organizing marches on Washington.  Not nationally organized at all.

38

Uh, Alice? - Don't I distinctly remember you telling us to get off our butts a year (or 2???) ago (during the course of a similar argument, about McCain I think ...sorry, I've never been able to make the search thingy work, so I'm going by memory here) and take over the effing GOP if we were serious about making changes?

We did. And we are.

Quit whining.

Populism happens in the US on occasion. Most newbies make mistakes. Deal with it.

 

39 Buses in DC? I've been to the DC ones, they're full of people who drove there or who took the metro on their lunch hour. I'm sure some buses went, but that's not what made them so big.

The first DC tea party event was a rainy, lunchtime, workday affair, the crowd was small, maybe a thousand or two, but it kept turning over. There was a steady stream of people from the metro as they went on their lunch break so it wasn't the same thousand or two.

The second one was all families. All families. Everywhere I looked I could see husband, wife and kids. Occasionally you'd see two or three families together, next to their campers.
Except for the signs, it looked more like Disney World than a protest.

Buses.
That's laughable.

40 I'm not whining about the Tea Party taking over the GOP, I'm whining that Veeshir is still whining about his betters choosing candidates.

These buses.

41

...heh: I see the Head Ewoky has came down on ...the side of fact. Paladino.Didn't.Say.That. after all.

...which makes that first "comment" positively prophetic, eh? Kudos, HD.

IVD? Thoughts? Position change? Apology?

42 Well, isn't that something, dude never said it.

43 Ouch.

Now about this dislike for the tea party thing....

44

Whoops, guess attempting to frame the debate dishonestly didn't work out so well after all.

45 I really like these posts. This site has some of the people whose opinions I value a lot. The mothership does too. Hostages, ditto, IB, same thing. And there's fighting, fighting like dogs, over the Tea Party vs GOP.

And Kos and Company says we walk in lockstep? The only conformists I see are in his little echo chamber.

Keep it up, folks! Prove em all wrong! (Tea party rocks, too. Even with O'Donnell). Looking forward to the Big Red Bitch, come Nov 2.

46 Well, isn't that something, dude never said it.

You fucked up.  You trusted us.

47 sockpuppet FAIL.  I SWEAR I changed my name to The MFM before posting that!

48 Well, isn't that something, dude never said it.

Dude, we covered that hours ago.  Politicians are so predictable.

I'm betting that the line that he omitted from his oral speech was something stuck in by a speechwriter and it doesn't fall into what he wants his public perception to be, but he needs to make a damn quick statement of that, and he needs to either chastise or fire the speechwriter if he wants anyone to think that he means it.

49 No Alice, I was whining about IVD either still not getting it or not liking it.

There's a difference you know.

And I didn't dispute that they sent buses, you might have figured that out if you had read where I wrote, "I'm sure some buses went, but that's not what made them so big."

How many tea parties around the country really care what some "Tea party Express" is doing?
You see, the tea party events in DC have not had a majority, nor even a sizable minortity, bused in.



If you're going to give me a hard time, you really have to do better than the series of things you've gone after me for that I didn't write.

50 I guess these tens of thousands of people didn't give a crap about what Tea Party Express is doing.  Isn't DC your neck of the woods? 

The buses I'm referring to aren't busing people in to the protests.  Go read about what I'm talking about, you're obviously confused.  A 34-city, 7,000-mile bus tour doesn't really sound like a local unorganized thing, does it?

51

Jeeeeeeebus.

Yes there were tens of thousands of people, no, they were not bused there by some tea party express.

Yes, the Tea Party Express is organized.

So fucking what?

I, and many thousands of others had been to at least two tea party events before we fucking heard of some Tea Party Express.

Are you seriously that offended by people trying to speak up that you have to invent some sort of overlord for the movement?

52 No, what I'm saying is that it's getting organized.  Organization doesn't have to happen from the top down.  

53 Hell no, I won't apologize. He's still a fucked up candidate, just like Dan Maes and Christine O'Donnell. 

54

Oh, so in the future it will be organized?

I don't know about that.

What will happen, as I've said before, is that people will try to glom on but they will be Tea Party Leaders just as much as I.

i.e. not at all.

Apparently there is a ready supply of tools who will happily pretend that they're the Tea Party leaders, the crazier the better I figure.

Organizing tea partiers will be about as easy as organizing DPUD.

Heck, we can't even agree on slow zombies/fast zombies.

 

55 It's more organized than I think you realize.  And you fucking know better, slow zombies!

56

Oh, I know that fast zombies are only in the movies, but I think that some here don't agree.

57

Zombies are only in movies?

58

Hell no, I won't apologize. He's still a fucked up candidate, just like Dan Maes and Christine O'Donnell.

Whoosh.

59

Fast zombies are only in movies, davis.

We all know the real zombies are slow.  

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1 I can't get too riled up about Cao.  Yeah, there's a 99% chance he's going to lose regardless of how had voted, and it would have been nice of him to sack-up and vote with the Republicans and accept his fate like man, but he's the only dude who was willing to put his name on the ballot against a massively corrupt career politician in a heavily Dem district.

It's a district that under normal circumstances we would have no chance in hell of holding.  You'd sooner expect Pat Buchanan to get himself elected in Pelosi's district.  So I won't shed any tears about Cao losing, but I'm not going to dance on his grave either.

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5 Dude, if you "believe he truly likes you," you have one hell of a disappointment coming your way.

6 Eh, I'm with <b>JoeCollins</b>.  It'd be nice if Cao had an I or a D after his name, but realistically he's more conservative than I'd otherwise think possible for that district.  Sometimes you just have to have bigger fish to fry and consider it a net gain. 

Did he trust Obama?  I don't know.  Regardless of whether he expected quid pro quo, the nature of his district might force him to do so if he ever expected to be re-elected and gain any clout for his district. 

As it is, he's better than we would otherwise expect for that district and is a vote for Boehner or Cantor as Speaker.  If we had another option that'd be one thing, but we don't.

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1 Hell, our former GOPer running as a third party candidate didn't even bother to run in the primary.

2 Unity!  That word does not mean what we keep being told it means.

3 you have to remember that for some politicians- I'm talking about the self-important scum-sucking bastards, here- personal ambition trumps unity or loyalty

4 yes, for every Castle/Murky/Mr. Scuzzabutt/Bennett/Crist/Specter, there is one Hoffman. Nice to see Hoffman's sore loser stupidity is mathematically superior to the 6-1 odds the RINOS lay out in terms of being shitheads. As Ace linked, contrast Hoffman to 99% of the conservatives who lose and support the primary winner vice the RINOS who generally go out of their way to sabotage their opponents in the General Election. But yeah, one Hoffman makes up for all the rest, especially given the fact that had Mr. Scuzzabutt not supported the Democrat in a fit of pique, Hoffman would be a Congressman now. But I guess that was OK.

Also, I noticed in the article that the local Tea Party is now saying don't vote for Hoffman. Contrast that to the NRSC flying in lawyers to Alaska to help Murky, the initial statements of non support to O'Donnell, the support for Bennett and Specter, and the Cornyn-led foolishness with Crist last year. Oh, and lest we forget the RINO-led efforts to chase Nikki Haley from the SC Gov race.

But I guess one shitbum sore loser trumps the rest. Good to know.

5

6 I'm with you, when the Rino runs, the GOP establishment is generally either silent or supportive.

When the tea party type runs
Quote (from the linked article)
That concern led the chair of the Upstate New York Tea Party to tell members that a vote for Hoffman, once the darling of the movement, amounts to a vote for Rep. Bill Owens, the incumbent Democrat.


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1 Get back to the clown thread, you. 

2 Eh, maybe it'll give Castle a chance to get a real job for a while and come back savvier and more conservative next time.  Imagine how much better-off we'd be if Obama had ever had to do that. 

Besides, if Castle's role is to be the horse's head in the bed, then so be it.  There's no right to public office.  Maybe his downfall (along with Bennett and Murkowski and the NY-23 debacle) will show the Republicans that they can't just take conservatives for granted. 

It's the other side of the coin from early 2008, when it looked like the GOP might pick Giuliani to run: I was prepared to sit on my hands rather than vote for such a liberal, even if it meant that someone even more liberal took office.  McCain was no prize, but he was streaky enough that he could be choked down.

3 Now I'm finding it interesting that all the people who are expecting a candidacy based on hatred of The Establishment are now whining that they won't help Christine O'Donnell pay rent for the next two months bankroll Christine O'Donnell's campaign.  Funny, that. 

4 I hope they don't bankroll her campaign.  The faster the NRSC becomes completely irrelevant (they're already well on their way) the better.

5

It wasn't that Castle lost, IVD: it's that the GOP lost, and the Tea Party won.

So ...it's coming. Change, I mean. Anything can happen when people are just this.pissed.off.

Even my Democrat union member buddies are pissed off. Kind of amazing, some of the conversations I've had over the past few months with guys who do NOT pay attention (much) to politics.

They are now.

6 Well, I don't especially like the tea party*, so I like when they lose.

*and yes, I proudly live in The District. 

7 Okay, can we all go back to forgetting that Delaware is a state now?

8 You know, I get disgusted every time I drive through Delaware and it occurs to me that they get two Senators.  Fold them into Maryland or Pennsylvania and be done with it.  I can only imagine my disgust should I ever drive through Connecticut and Rhode Island.

9 I Don't vote there, so I don't know.  She seems kinda strange, he seems unreliable, but the "establishment" not bankrolling isn't what they are doing, they aren't supporting at all, and acting petulant after the guy they DID bankroll lost, even after engaging in all the dirtyness they are laying at the feet of O'Donnel.

10

You see, douglas, she 'made them' do it for, like, our own good, so can you  really blame them for taking their toys and going home?

/sarc 

11

There are two different things going on.

On the one hand, we have  our career pols who need us to shut the fuck up, send them money, vote the way they say and be happy about it.

They're better and smarter than we are after all.

On the other hand, there's a lot of people who are sick of elitist pricks telling us we're too stupid to make our own decisions.

Each side is trying to teach the other side the lesson.

Tea partiers understand what our elitist tolls are saying, they just disagree.

The elitist tools have not learned shit even after losing 3 elections in a row.

They just don't understand what the tea partiers are saying so they just keep telling us to shut the fuck up and vote for the fucking Rinos who will expand gov't a little more slowly than the Dems they're running against.

I want what my opponent wants! Just a little less of it!

 

Fuck them all. I would rather see 535 Ron Pauls next year than 535 John Fucking McCains or Lindsey Fucking Grahams.  

Hell, I'd rather see 535 Dennis Kuciniches next year than 535 John Fucking McCains.

12 Right on, Veesh.  555^

We'll take our chances in the general, and the elitist RINO fuckbags can suck my left one.

If the democrat gets it, so fucking what?  Castle is a democrat anyway, so it's six of one and a half-dozen of the other.

I'd rather be punched in the face than stabbed in the back.

13

Perhaps this is the change that Mr. Obama promised us. I welcome it. I also welcome the opportunity for the people to show:

A. Political parties are becoming as disconnected from the electorate as the perennial incumbants that infest DC.

B. That differing points of view are best settled at the ballot box.

C. Conservative values have a strong resonance with voters regardless of what the media wishes us to believe.

As for Mr. Castle's future, I think he should form a new political party. Perhaps give Charlie Crist an invite to help head the organization. They could call it the Democratic Party. God knows the one currently parading under that banner is nothing but a bunch of socio/Marxist hacks.

14

Hell, I'd rather see 535 Dennis Kuciniches next year than 535 John Fucking McCains.

Heh. We could call it the Monkey Congress.

Q: If you give the Monkey Congress 535 typewriters and set them typing, how long before they [randomly, by chance] write the Constitution?

A: ???

15

davis,

It could take days or weeks or even years, but since it's Congress, you couldn't get them to actually read it or follow it.

16

From the original article in the post.

Former Rep. George Nethercutt (R-Wash.), now a lobbyist in Washington, D.C., attended a separate dinner and also came away impressed.

 

Okay, if I made up an article talking about something that would make establishment GOPers happy I don't think I would have gone that far.

It ain't just an end of civilization, it's hilarious.

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1 It's awesome when you get to argue both sides of an issue. I've noticed that you can win fairly easily that way.

That clip is remarkably short on another huge factor.

I don't want to vote for/support the Rino/Dem Lite anymore.

2 I'm with Veeshir...I'm done compromising my principles. 

3 I prefer conservative candidates as well.  But when our choices are a RINO who has been winning elections statewide since 1980 and an unethical perennial conservative candidate who is guaranteed to lose, I'll choose the RINO every time.   

4

I'm w/ Veeshir and LCAS--the pragmatists can suck it.

(I learned my lesson years ago when I voted for Arnie over McClintock, and look how that clusterfuck turned out--too bad Team Electability>Everything Else can't see exactly where being 'pragmatic' gets you.)

5 I wasn't discussing that, I was talking about the strawman vid portraying opponents as idiots and discounting any thought on their part.

They're obviously mindless idiots obviously programmed by Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.

6 Comment directed at IV,D, not ECM. 

7 Let me help with this...This is a vote em all out atmosphere. One candidate has been in office through the last 10 years Correct? IF so then HE is part of the reason we are in this mess,  Regardless of Party. ALL Incumbents that have been in office through the last 10 years should be removed. Accountability is a two way street. R-or D...

8 This reader comment was left on a different Mark Levin FB post. I can't tell if it's supposed to be facetious or not:
---------------
It's more than the ISI lawsuit.
It's more than the neighbors turning her in to the authorities when she lived in Wilmington.
It's more than having to sell her home to avoid the sheriff's sale.
It's more than failing to file reports with the ...FEC, being cited over and over and over and over and...
It's more than her university having to sue her to recover tuition (in addition to the student loans she had to repay).
It's more than the flaky claims about people hiding in the bushes and breaking into her campaign HQ (and never reporting it to the police for investigation).
It's more than the unpaid debts to vendors and campaign staff.
It's more than the campaign paying rent and cable TV and phone and electricity, etc., for her and the guy she lives with.
It's more than the use of out-of-state vendors over locals, and questions over why seemingly personal out-of-state expenses are charged to the campaign.
It's more than not holding a steady job and making ends meet by "doing odd jobs" and reporting <$6,000 income for more than a year.
It's more than her staff making outrageous claims.
It's more than her claiming that Rasmussen polls are being manipulated by the RNC.
It's more than her tendency to attack any critics as being part of a Mike Castle conspiracy.
Etc.
It is about beating Castle!

9 Sounds like whichever one wins the primary, voting for the Dem in the general is the right way to go.

10 Think people need to chill the fuck out about this race.

11 I agree, people need to chill out.  O'donnell has been declared the winner.  Lets rally and try to get her a win.

12 There's another component to this and many other races that gets ignored: competence. If we run ultra conservative candidates that just happen to be bumbling, incompetent boobs, we deserve to lose. I can't say I know for sure about this particular case, but there have been times.

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I saw this a little earlier this morning, but was too livid to make a comment.  I have finally settled down a bit, but am still upset.  We have got to get rid of these RINO's.  I hear Lisa M is again thinking about running as an independent.  I hope she does; the resulting election resulsts will be the final nail in that family's political empire.  But to find out that she is the 5th most important repub. has got to be the biggest joke on all of us.

Is there any hope that if the conservatives who appear to be winning can ouster some of these jerkwads from leadership???  I sure hope so.

So, anyway, why does Obie Loser keep fighting his one sided fight against good old boy Bohner?

 

2 I'll probably get slammed as a RINO again, but here goes nothing --

I'm a little surprised that nobody has suggested compromising on the rates, rather than on who's being taxed.  Tax rates, money -- these things are continuous variables.  You can split the baby on this without... ending up with baby guts all over you.

To partially make up for my RINOish comment, I'll bitch about the RNC/NRCC/NRSC communications teams a bit, which is my perpetual wont.  -- How is it that Obumbles gets to bitch about 700bn over ten years when the stimulus was 800bn over two years?  One was necessary, but the other is an immoral indulgence???  Can't anybody on the party payroll figure that one out?

3 Okay Joe, so tell the GOP leadership about your compromise, why tell us? We're reacting to what they're doing.
Once burned, twice shy.
A million times burned, forever shy.

The deal is that they're worried about the media calling them meanies.

Their problem is that they're spending too much time lamenting Sarah Palin's success and ignoring Christie's to see what those two are doing by attacking back at Minitru and ridiculing their narrative.

Minitru doesn't have the stranglehold on the message anymore, other narratives are now possible.
Hell, Matt Drudge drives the debate probably as much as the NY Times and he's one guy using snarky comments and hilarious photo juxtapositions.

4

If Boner (yeah, my opinion of the way to spell it, sophomoric moron that I am) had half a brain, he would have switched the focus onto regulatory burden instead of direct taxes.  The regulatory burden (including the recent health care fiasco) has a far greater impact on small business than the marginal tax rate.

Of course, that would mean downsizing government, something Boner is actually loathe to do, as he's just another asshole pol who's all about the power.

5

6 (facepalm)

7 Regulatory burdens aren't sexy.

Of course, neither are tax rate compromises, which is why we have this game of chicken.

8 THANK YOU for posting this!  I love your blog!!

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9
Boehner is right about one thing - not knowing whether (and for whom) the tax cuts will be extended is worse than making a decision. Everyone is paralyzed with uncertainty.

This decision should have been made and announced 6 months ago. We wouldn't be in as bad shape as we are now, even if they hadn't extended the cuts for the "rich."

10

Jeez, my comment was flagged.

Just out of curiousity, what is considered inappropriate for this blog?

I mean, it's not as if I said that of course zombies are all fast in the real world.

11

And then there's this.

"Who can surrender first?"

Apparently House Dems want to extend all the tax cuts.

The Funniest End of Civilization Ever strikes again! 

 

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1 I hold no brief for McConnell, but nothing here is all that objective. He's trying to reframe the argument from an obstructionist GOP to forcing Obama to being obstructionist to the goals of the GOP, all of which listed are politically popular. It's a mild form of political jujitsu.

2 objective = objectional.

3 Yeah, I'd have to see what he does.
The GOP's strategy this election is to keep their mouths shut as much as possible. He has to say something, so he's saying the most innocuous things he can while still saying he wants to reduce spending and taxes.

If you want to be Majority Leader, you need to be able to work with the other side.
So long as you don't roll over you have to make happy noises.
McConnell has held the line against Obama, making him use the Northeast GOP for his cover, and then only rarely. 

4 I don't get it - why are the rules grossly different for Reps and Dems?

I don't mean in the media. I mean in the base.

The base of the Democrats has purged and purified that party into a totalitarian wet dream, and it has netted them a lot. Obamacare is really only part of it: don't forget (with the help of useful idiots like Bush), the government has taken over the entire financial sector, most of the automotive sector, and housing.

The politically "pragmatic," savvy, reliable, nonconfrontational Republicans assisted the Democrats in this takeover.

Mitch McConnell and the rest of the GOP leadership has no business being in control. They have no direction, no guiding principles, and nothing to offer in opposition to the Democrats.

I'm being kind in not assuming that Team GOP doesn't, in fact, actively support the Democratic vision of America, licking their lips at everything they could do if only they were in control.

5 Shorter me:

Ideological purges actually work. They worked for the Democrats throughout the late 1990s and culminated in 2006 and 2008.

At this rate, the Democrats are going to take back power in 2012. Because they actually believe in something, no matter how vile it is.

6 Well, he could always accidentally choke to death on, say, 20-30 chicken bones. It could happen.

7

Saying 'cut spending and debt' sounds great, but it also comes across as completely empty platitude, given the actions of the GOP in the last 15 years.  And how he thinks he can work with Obama on that is beyond me.

I'd like to see the focus be on Financial Responsibility.  I think this is a huge winner this year.  Fiscally responsible people have gotten the shaft in this economy.  ZIRP is a straight transfer of money to the banks from savers.  Government employees are getting raises while everyone in the private sector is getting hosed.  Tapped-out banks have a government backstop and are allowed to flat-out lie about their balance sheets.  The list goes on and on.

If the GOP would just toss everything else aside and focus strictly on restoring a bit of actual capitalism to the economy, they'd have their base, the tea party, and most independents as well.  Ignore the social issues and focus on the economy.

8 You got it HD.
Let's see if they learned a lesson.
Or rather, let's see if they'll act accordingly.

It's going to be ugly. But Minitru/Journolist is losing its clout, people are tuning them out and turning them off.

I hope in years to come the 2008 election is Minitru's last gasp in being able to drive the debate (leftward).

9 Holy shit, it's like he's channelling a dead Trent Lott.

10

Mitch McConnel is a dinosaur. Unleash the meteors and line up some new guys for the job, should it open up for us.

 

I am of the opinion that all the old guys have become way too comfortable in Washington, and need to go home.

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1 I thought people would wake up a little and smell the coffee after getting Sharron Angle nominated.  I hope she beats Dingy Harry, but she's only in the game because Harry is so goshdarn awful.  If she wins --which she very well might-- it will be because her campaign will have managed to contain teh crayzee.

I'm totally on the same page as Ace on this.

Is there some kind of, ya know, strategically rational faction of the Tea Party I can root for?

2 Without downplaying the inherent crazy of Christine O'Donnell (which should have been evident from her hosting gigs on Hannity's show - I despise Hannity)...

Strategically rational has given us McCain, Guiliani, both Bushes, Specter, Murkowski, Delay, and Boehner.

If my choice is those versus crazy, I'm almost ready to side with crazy.

As in, on the Sharron Angle end. O'Donnell is a bridge too far - we have enough mean-spirited poseurs just in our strategically rational group. We don't need to import more.

3 Also, I've never heard of not getting a degree for twelve years (or whatever) because of student debt.  They don't give you your sheepskin if you didn't make your regular payments.  It shouldn't have taken her so long to straighten herself out w/ the Bursar.

4 Ella, you're making a point about ideology, and I'm making a point about tact, sanity, and general qualification.  I'm with you on the ideology thing to a large degree.  I could point you to more than a few lengthy blog posts I've written on the matter, all basically arguing that we're capable of electing more conservative candidates than the self-styled GOP elite gives us credit for.

But you can't just put up any old person who yells something about "the Constitution" just because the inside-track candidate has RINO tendencies. 

Guiliani??  He was the most conservative Northeast big city mayor you're going to see in your lifetime.  And he didn't get to be the prez nominee, so not seeing the point there.

5 I would rather see voters screw it up our political betters. 

I'm looking at the tools who put Specter over Toomey last time.
They probably would have done it again if he had stayed in the GOP.

Elitist pricks piss me off.

6 I meant to address this
Is there some kind of, ya know, strategically rational faction of the Tea Party I can root for?

You're totally misunderstanding the main, fundamental fact about this deal.
There is no Tea Party.
There are only tea partiers.

 Go to a tea party event. Don't watch the speakers, check out the crowd. Most of them are ignoring the speakers too. They're just there to let their elected officials know they're unhappy about how they're doing their job.

Sarah Palin isn't a Tea Party Leader, she's saying stuff that tea partiers want to hear. If she tries to point tea partiers in a direction they don't want to go, they won't go.
If you understand that, it will make sense. What the tea partiers in Nevada do has little to do with what the ones in Delaware do.


There is no leadership, there are only a shitload of pissed off taxpayers who see elitist assholes calling them names, telling them to shut it, doing stuff against the interests of their voters all while spending their money and their children's money like the people who steal money from drunken sailors.

7 ok, "tea party" was imprecise, though I think it's fair to say there are factions amongst the tea partiers & TP sympathizers.  And with Ace's post, and the backlash to it, we're seeing that.

I mean something more like reform-oriented base voters.  Actually, quite a bit like Sarah Palin, who has shown a willingness to either embrace or buck the establishment when it is actually logical to do so.

Sometimes the party stumbles onto the truth.  Stopped clock, and all that.

8

If the incompetent fools at the NRSC stays out and lets things play their course, then I am OK with this one, since O'Donnell would get crushed in a general election.

....

But if Castle fucks up and goes full bore RINO and votes for cap&tax, against repeal of Obamacare, pro taxes, and pro Obama judges, then fuck them all. Many of us have been wounded too many times, and won't put up with the "leaders" in the not Obama crowd much longer to just take it anymore

 

9
Sometimes the party stumbles onto the truth.  Stopped clock, and all that.

Why the antipathy for the tea partiers? Seriously.

10 No antipathy.  But I can't say I consider myself one.  Sympathetic, most of the time, yes.  And sometimes I disagree, as with O'Donnell.

And it ain't like I don't criticize the party.  I've done way more of that.

11 Mark Levin has chunks bigger then you in his stool.

12 Touché, AlphaBase1.  Touché.

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Eddie Bear... you've really got to man up and quit sugar coating it every time.  I mean, come on!  The soft sell isn't working.

You're right on.  Fuck them, Fuck their idiocy, Fuck their moderation, Fuck their arrogance, Fuck their "we've got to be bipartisan" dildo-from-hell-in-my-rectum, Fuck their inane platitudes about civility.

 

I T  I S  F U C K I N G  W A R!! And, the sooner these douchenozzle felchers of boyscouts get the message, the sooner we can take back our country.

2

How many examples?

I'm thinking they might need one involving tar and feathers since they haven't learned from losing two elections, a bunch of tea party events, losing primaries and people not sending in money.

But then, I'm kind of a jerk.

3

true. But listening to some of the RNC shills, it's our fault for being too demanding. We should know our place, and calling out our "betters" is bad.

/sarc

4 The GOP establishment is not about anything but perpetuation of their own power.  They're part of the problem and not the solution.  Thus, these 'lessons' are lost on them and they will continue to fight the grass roots conservative movement until they're forcibly removed.

5

Can we still use the tar and feathers HD?

6 I believe tarring and feathering qualifies as forcible removal (especially combined with being run out of town on a rail).  I was thinking more along the lines of the ballot box, but whatever gets the job done.

7 I can't wait to see the lost puppy dog look on Mitch McConnell's face when all his inner sanctum buddies are gone. He'll probably turn to Cornyn for comfort.

8 I also have to wonder if their upcoming lobbying careers are going to be as lucrative.
In the past you had all the "my good friend" stuff when the critters retired.

Now? They're being replaced by people who ran pretty much calling them corrupt, insider, money-ticks.

So those ticks are going to have to try convince their replacements to let them get a little more of that sweet, sweet taxpayer money.

Hmmm, that's funny and non-endy.
Now I'm scared.
 

9

I'm thinking they might need one involving tar and feathers ...

You need to move on, Veesh'.

...I'm already to solutions ecompassing solitudinous aging gnarly oak trees with strong limbs, 3/8 inch sisal rope, simple (but effective) slip knots, and a smack to the rump of a tall horse with an urge to bolt.

...frontier justice.

10 Well folks, you got what you voted for.  Don't blame the fuckwads if they are fuckwads.  Somebody elected these slime bags, and somebody keeps electing them.  Quit complaining and find somebody conservative to run against them when they come up for election again.  And no more of this crap about these RINO's being as conservative as we can get in New England. Screw New England.

11 You missed the memo TimothyJ.

Now we're bitching because the GOP establishment keeps trying to screw the new conservative candidates in Red states.
You know, like Miller for instance.
And torpedoing Toomey in PA.
Twice!
The Dede Scozzofava debacle in NY.

12 the NRSC meddling (again) in a primary was bad enough. But when they sent lawyers up to help Murky, that became my Rubicon with them.

Davis: please no violence. Just electoral defeat and humiliation.

13 As a member of the senate Murkowski is entitled to that help.  That's part of what the NRSC exists for.  Assume Miller wins and during the next election cycle he is challenged by someone like Arlen Spector and it is as close an election as this one.  Would you want the NRSC to sit on the sidelines or send the lawyer that Miller would be entitled to?

14 Sit on the sidelines.
That's the whole point. They promised not to get involved in contested primaries.
Let Teh Peepul figure it out without bringing in Caveman Lawyer.


I don't know about anybody else, but I'm pissed off at the system, not just who's in charge of it.

15 I don't remember them promising not to get involved in contested primaries but if you say they did I'll take your word for it.  I'm sorry I just refuse to get upset about someone availing themselves of a service that they contracted / paid for.

16 I know this is from last year, and from Politico, but this is what Cornyn said, especially as it reflected upon Florida:

"As far as what's happening in specifically Florida -- we made a decision to endorse Gov. Crist at his request{what's that tell you on both sides?-ed}. But we'e really not involved in the primary," {ahem-ed}Cornyn told Manu. "That's up to the voters in Florida."

And this:

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And this:

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Look, that last bit could be parsed, especially as it relates/related to other races, but sending lawyers/consultants up to AK to help the Murkowski recount effort (lawyers and consultants who I am sure do not work for free, hence requiring money to be thrown at them) , along with their earlier campaign advice on going negative against Miller, in a primary comes as close as can get to the NRSC/GOP Machine meddling in a primary.

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1 Too bad you are preaching to the choir here.  Simple answer:  Do not contribute to the Rep. Senate committee.  Eventually they will go the way of other useless things, like the passenger pigeon and the dodo bird.

2 I haven't gotten a request from the national party in quite a while.  The local pols (who I have no problem donating to, depending on who it is), on the other hand, are a different story. 

Wow, could I have punctuated and structured that last sentence a bit more awkwardly?

3 If Cornyn thinks it will be a cakewalk for him here in Texas when his time is up, he has another thing coming. People are still pissed off about the whole KBH running for governor shit, and him getting his panties in a wad over an <i>ALASKA</i> primary stinks to high heaven. Just shows he wants to keep the status quo, and fuck the "little people" he supposedly represents, because <i>they don't know any better</i>.

Grrrrrrrrrr........

4 Damn it.... forgot about the  options here

5 I'd be more than happy to see every single Senator and Congresscritter thrown out on their ass and forbidden from ever running for public office again.  Sure, you'd lose a few (very few) good ones, but you'd be so far better off it would be worth it.

6 You know it HD.

100% turnover would make me happy.

7

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8 I gotta say, watching Ace doing the 180 on this is really hilarious.  Also I'm all for voting out everyone, every single solitary member of Congress.

I still think FrankJ's idea has merit.

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Either they haven't learned any lesson from 06, 08 or the tea parties or they have and they don't like the lesson.

Eh, that's okay. I have better things to do with my money too.

2 Warning: viewers may find this post fucking offensive

3 After reading and rereading your post, I can't help but get the feeling you might be a little angry.

4 My message to the NRSC.

Do people still do googlebombs? Do they still work?

5 One thing we at least understand from this clusterfuck is that the NRSC mainly serves as an incumbent protection enterprise.

Therefore it must be taken out with the rest of the trash.

6 I don't think they liked the lesson, Veeshir. 

7 Their "hooker's musty fuckpouch."

Man, I almost bought it choking on a pretzel.

8 DAYUM that was a lot of FUCKS......May be a record.

And might I add...EXACTLY!

GOP is the reason for the season. Without them, we wouldn't have gotten Obama. Every action, opposite reaction yad yada...McCain? My GAWD AZ WTF?

That's okay AZ I still love yall, ya got Brewer kickin ass!

9

Considering Ace's last post on this I have to wonder, did eddie get Ace's log in?

I know there's no "fuckity fuckswipes" in that post, but the meaning is crystal clear.

10 Oh fuckity fuck fuck. You're fucking apofuckingplectic fuck over fuck a fucking tempest in fuck a fucking teafuckingpot. Not fucking to fucking mention fucking jumping at fucking shadows. Calm the fuck down and fucking get a fuck fuck fucking grip, fucking dude! Oh, fucking by the fucking way, Fuck Fuck FFFFUUUUUUCCCCKKKK!!!!

11 The funniest part?
lepidus think it totally pwned you and went away smug and happy.

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Damn-near spewed my water - same as Aggie.

Another priceless jewel of carefully crafted and nuanced reasoning by Eddiebear!

Someone should start an archive so that his immortal words aren't lost. Future generations will thank them for it.

And he should write a book.

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2 *files "fuckgiggler" away for future reference*

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OK, he's not a socialist. He's a Marxist, racist, self absorbed douche nozzle with delusions of competence. There. Better?

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